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DOI: 10.1055/s-0043-117371
Preben Hertoft (5. Januar 1928 – 26. Februar 2017)
„Mennesket først!”Publication History
Publication Date:
05 October 2017 (online)
![](https://www.thieme-connect.de/media/sexualforschung/201703/lookinside/thumbnails/10-1055-s-0043-117371-1.jpg)
Ein Online-Gespräch zwischen Christian Graugaard und Gunter Schmidt [ 1 ]
Graugaard. Let’s talk about our old friend, Preben Hertoft, who died in February at the age of 89. After all, it was Preben who brought you and me together, and while he was my sexological mentor, I know that he was also a source of great inspiration to you.
Personally, I first met Preben at the medical school of Copenhagen sometime in the late 1980s. I had begun studying medicine, because I wanted to come as close to the mysteries of human existence as possible. But to my grave disappointment, I soon discovered that there was not much human about all the body parts and cell morphologies we were expected to learn by heart. In consequence, I was increasingly frustrated and had a nagging feeling of wasting my time. By chance, I signed up for a voluntary course on basic sexology, and far away at the bottom of the huge auditorium I saw this petite and distinguished man sitting smilingly and relaxed on the lectern saying: „Mennesket først!“ („Human above all!“).
This was the first time I heard anybody at the medical faculty say „human“ without referring to organs or cellular processes. Finally! An esteemed teacher who talked so naturally about whole human beings with dreams, feelings, and desires. I fell a little in love with Preben right there, and my feelings for him never faded, although he could be demanding at times.
After the lecture, I contacted Preben’s legendary secretary, Ellen Magrethe Geleff, and requested a meeting. I was soon invited to Preben’s office, and he pulled a bottle of sherry out of the bottom drawer of his archive cabinet and started interviewing me about who I was and how I envisioned my future as a doctor. I was in my early 20s, and a celebrated chief physician from Rigshospitalet (the University Hospital of Copenhagen) was curious about my background and aspirations. What a shock! A trainee period at Sexological Clinic was soon arranged, and I became extremely fascinated by the sexological „experimentarium“ that Preben had going at his clinic. The curiosity and pioneer spirit of the entire staff were simply mesmerizing.
Later, I wrote my Bachelor’s thesis under Preben’s supervision. And later again, I wrote a Master’s thesis about legal castration of „ sexual deviants“ in interwar Denmark, which led directly to a PhD grant after my graduation in 1994. In my PhD thesis, I studied the medical history of sexuality during the 1920s and 1930s, a subject that had interested Preben for decades.
But what about you, dear Gunter. How did you get to know Preben?
Schmidt. Ich dachte zunächst, er sei ein Soziologe. Ich stieß gleich nach ihrem Erscheinen auf seine zweibändige Studie zur Jugendsexualität, die er 1968 in Kopenhagen publizierte. [ 2 ] Mit ihrem internationalen Zuschnitt – lange englische Zusammenfassung, der gesamte Tabellenteil auf Englisch – war sie für Ausländer gut zu rezipieren. In den späten 1960ern boomten Jugendstudien über Sex und Beziehungen, ein tabuiertes Feld wurde im Handstreich bestellt: M. Schofield in England, J. Israel in Schweden, W. Simon und J. Gagnon in den USA, H. Giese und ich in Deutschland, Preben in Dänemark. Die dänische Studie ist eine der größten und methodisch gediegensten dieser Serie, vereinte eine Fragebogen- und eine Interviewerhebung. Sie begründete Prebens Ansehen als Sexualforscher in Skandinavien und der westlichen Welt. Dass ein Psychiater sie leitete, konnte man daran erkennen, dass er den Sex nicht nur in Tabellen zerlegte, sondern in sorgfältig ausgewählten prototypischen Sexualbiografien wieder zum Ganzen fügte.
Über einen Zeitraum von 40 Jahren haben wir uns oft gesehen und – heute kaum mehr vorstellbar – hunderte Briefe gewechselt. Wir sprachen und korrespondierten auf Englisch, Preben verstand gut Deutsch, mochte es aber nicht gerne sprechen. Er war 12 Jahre alt, als deutsche Truppen sein Land besetzten und 17-jährig, als sich Dänemark im Mai 1945 befreite. In einem Kapitel seiner „Erinnerungen“ [ 3 ] publizierte er kommentarlos seine Tagebucheintragungen, die er im April und Mai 1945 gemacht hat. Am 4. Mai schrieb er: „Dänemark ist frei. Ich hörte es im Radio, dass deutsche Besatzungstruppen kapituliert haben. Wir gingen die Straße entlang und sahen viele Menschen mit der Dannebrogsflag. Sie riefen Hurra und beglückwünschten sich“.
Als er sein Jugendbuch publizierte, hatte er gerade eine Stelle am „Rigshospitalet“ als Psychiater angetreten. Er hatte schon damals den Traum, hier eine „Sexologisk Klinik“ zu gründen. Die Verwirklichung dieses Traums dauerte noch knapp 20 Jahre. Was, glaubst du, bewegte ihn, seinen Plan mit Geduld und Sthenie umzusetzen?
Graugaard. That’s a great question, and actually Preben tried to answer it several times himself, both in talks and in various memoir texts. For one thing, he was born in 1928, right at the point when The Roaring Twenties collapsed in the economic depression and political totalitarianism of the 1930 s. He was five years old, when Hitler became Chancellor, and the sexual liberalism of Hirschfeld’s Weimar Republic came to a sudden stop. Somehow, this alarming political and moral transition became a psychologic template for Preben, and as he grew up in an increasingly puritan Denmark, he idealized the pioneers of the sexual reform movement and became keen on restoring a bit of the lost pre-war innocence. He later wrote extensively on Magnus Hirschfeld, Norman Haire and Jonathan Leunbach, among many others [ 4 ]. To Preben, these were the true heroes of modernity, and I think he somehow viewed his own project as a natural extension of theirs.
Also, Preben was adopted, which he found out by accident in his late teens. So, questions of belonging, attachment, identity, ambivalence, loss, and love had a special significance to him. Arguably, this was why he became a psychiatrist in the first place and indeed a major reason for his life-long interest in intimacy and erotic interactions. Like Kinsey, he never concealed that he was driven by personal motivations, doubts, fears, and curiosity; he was not the least ashamed to draw on his own experiences or shortcomings when discussing clinical or theoretical matters. „ I know this feeling from myself“, he would suddenly say. Pure Kinsey style! Such a dynamic and investigative approach to sexology was a true blessing for his younger colleagues. And, I am sure, for his patients.
Did he ever talk to you about his background or his motives for studying sex and sexuality?
Schmidt. Nein, darüber haben wir nicht gesprochen. Jenseits des wissenschaftlichen Ernstes waren wir flapsig-flachsig miteinander, das verband Vertrautheit und Spröde. Aber ich ahnte immer, dass Preben ein „primärer“ Sexualforscher war. Das sind – in meiner „homemade“ Typologie – Kollegen und Kolleginnen, deren biografischen Konflikte und Brüche ihrem Forscherdrang Lebendigkeit, Intensität und gelegentlich auch Richtung geben, so wie du es gerade für Preben beschrieben hast. Die „Sekundären“ dagegen gelangen (fast) zufällig in die Sexualwissenschaft, sie könnten ebenso gut und erfolgreich in einem anderen Fach reüssieren. Forscher wie Karl Heinrich Ulrichs im 19. Jahrhundert, Alfred Kinsey oder John Money, um nur einige zu nennen, waren offensichtlich „primär“, wie sich an ihren Biografien leicht erkennen lässt. Alle drei Kernmerkmale der „Primären“ finden wir bei Preben: Er war glühender Antikonventionalist und damit auch immer politisch, seine Essaybände zeugen davon, er gab ihnen Titel wie „Den rebelske fugl“ [ 5 ]; er war Universalist, nicht spezialisiert auf partikulare Fragestellungen, es ging ihm ums Ganze, um den Komplex Sexualität; er war neugierig aufs Feld, kannte die vielfältigen sexuellen Szenen seiner Stadt und sonstwo, und diese waren ihm wichtige Erkenntnisquellen.
Graugaard. Interesting thoughts. I wonder, how you and I fit into your homemade typology! But, for sure, Preben was a great admirer of both Ulrichs, Kinsey and Money, and we should certainly add Magnus Hirschfeld. As you well know, Hirschfeld made little distinction between life and work and he spend his turbulent career tightrope walking between activism and science. A dangerous balance act that may end up threatening the credibility of both. Appropriately enough, Preben saw Hirschfeld as a frontrunner of sexual education, therapy, health, and rights, and although he acknowledged Richard von Krafft-Ebing as the „father“ of modern sexology, his own temperament was much more „Weimarian“, much more eclectic and activist than most psychiatrists of his day. He even kept a small bust of Magnus Hirschfeld in his office – a sketch of the original that was destroyed by the Nazis in 1933.
Another key figure for Preben was obviously Sigmund Freud, and although he never underwent any formal psychoanalytic training, his theoretical framework was highly influenced by psychodynamic thinking. He was a true master of unravelling the subtle layers of sexual or relational problems. He was a master of listening carefully, patiently, and empathetically, and of using the electricity of the doctor-patient relationship to spark therapeutic progress. When I began my PhD study in 1994, Preben invited me on a pilgrimage to Berggasse 19, which he believed to be an appropriate excursion for a young sexologist in spe. Preben wandered around Freud’s Vienna apartment as an old friend of the house, and you expected Martha to serve the „wiener mélange“ any moment. It was a really moving experience.
Preben certainly had his heroes, and many of them became mine too. At the same time, however, he remained curious. He was enthusiastic about the social constructionist writings of Foucault and Simon and Gagnon, and he embraced the late-modern sociology of Anthony Giddens, Zygmunt Bauman and our own Henning Bech. It was pretty obvious, however, that he didn’t feel completely at home in radical constructionism and queer theory – he was worried that too much deconstruction would undermine the quintessential „human“ and leave people lonely and confused. Or even cynical and detached from the emotional stability of obligating relationships. But he never became grumpy, and the only thing he unambiguously denounced was „pop sexologists“ and biological determinists. He considered „quick fixes“ of any kind both naïve and dangerous.
Schmidt. Preben hatte eine liebenswert antiquierte Seite. Sein umfangreiches Werk „Klinisk Sexologi“ [ 6 ], das zwischen 1976 und 1987 in drei Auflagen in Kopenhagen erschien – und das zum Standardwerk in ganz Skandinavien avancierte – war tatsächlich ein Einpersonenbuch – er überblickte noch alles, war klinisch erfahren mit allen Problemen und Störungsbildern, war auch klinisch ein Universalist. 1989 erschien die deutsche Ausgabe unter dem Titel „Klinische Sexologie“, über die Eberhard Schorsch in einer Rezension schrieb: „Die klinische Sexologie von Preben Hertoft ist das mit Abstand gelungenste Lehr- und Übersichtsbuch. Das Wesentliche und Erstaunliche an diesem Buch ist, dass eine Gesamtkonzeption, ein differenziertes Bild vom Menschen und seiner Sexualität durchgehalten wird“.
Die erste Auflage dieses Buches ist zehn Jahre vor Gründung der „Sexologisk Klinik“ in 1986 erschienen; wo hat Preben diese breiten Erfahrungen gesammelt, wie war die Vorgeschichte der Sexologie am Rigshospitalet?
Graugaard. As newly appointed chief psychiatrist at Rigshospitalet, Preben became inspired by Kaplan’s „The New Sex Therapy“ (1974) and wanted to import her ideas to Scandinavia. Consequently, he initiated a so-called „Cohabitation group“ of young doctors, psychologists and social workers, who would explore sex therapy on patients and, I guess, themselves. However, the psychiatric department was highly patriarchal and old-school, and Preben’s silent revolution was not at all embraced by his senior colleagues. Luckily, he got tailwind from medical students and younger staff members, and through frequent appearances in the media, he made a popular name for himself too. So gradually, he gained ground and in April 1986 – after years of clever political maneuvering – the first public sexological clinic in Denmark was opened under his leadership.
Schmidt. Sicherlich war Preben fasziniert von Masters und Johnsons innovativen Ansatz bei der Behandlung sexueller Funktionsstörungen in den 1960ern und dessen psychodynamischem und paardynamischem „Remastering“ in den 1970ern durch Helen Kaplan und andere. Aber ich glaube, dass die sexuellen Funktionsprobleme für ihn zum Alltag einer „Klinisk Sexologie” gehörten, die therapeutischen und theoretischen Herausforderungen lagen für ihn in den ungewöhnlichen Sexualitäten und Perversionen, der Sexualdelinquenz, der Transsexualität und der Lage der sexuellen Minderheiten – und die Situation von Schwulen und Lesben, um nur diese zu nennen, war auch im Dänemark der 1960er, als Preben ans Rigshosptalet kam, noch katastrophal. Er versuchte in den 1980ern sogar, wie mancher seiner damaligen Kollegen, bestimmte sexuelle Beziehungen von Erwachsenen mit Kindern in einer Art und Weise zu entdramatiseren, die uns heute, 30 Jahre später, als naiv, problematisch oder gar fahrlässig erscheint.
In seinen klinischen Interessenschwerpunkten war Preben Hans Giese, der ihm viel bedeutete, sehr ähnlich. Ich glaube, vor allem mit diesen Schwerpunkten konnte er an einer großen psychiatrischen Klinik reussieren. Was geschah nach Prebens Pensionierung in 1997 mit der Kopenhagener „Sexologisk Klinik”?
Graugaard. Well, you know. It’s never easy when grand old men and women step down. And when Preben retired, a great deal of the staff left the clinic too. Those were turbulent years. But even if the clinic eventually lost its administrative autonomy, it is still alive, and in 2014 Dr. Annamaria Giraldi was appointed professor of clinical sexology at the University of Copenhagen. Good news for Danish sexology! And luckily, Preben lived to enjoy it. Likewise, he was delighted when I was headhunted to a new position as professor of general sexology at Aalborg University in 2012. The same year, we launched our Center for Sexology Research, and Preben talked beautifully at the festive opening. He clearly felt both proud and comforted that Danish sexology thrived and that two Danish universities now had sexological chairs. This was also the last time he spoke publicly. Unfortunately, dementia had already begun to take its toll.
But I am curious to know, Gunter, what you have learned from Preben – and how his legacy, in your mind, may be relevant to current-day sexology?
Schmidt. „Legacy”, also „Vermächtnis”, ist ein wuchtiges Wort, das mir nicht so recht zu Prebens Kerntugend, Bescheidenheit, passen will. Mir fällt es leichter zu sagen, was ich besonders an ihm mochte und was mich besonders berührte. Er hatte ein Herz für die sexuell Bunten, Anderen und Beladenen und ein ungewöhliches Verständnis für sie. Und ich vermisse die schönen und leichten Feiern in seinem Haus, bei denen uns zu fortgeschrittener Stunde Nanna, seine Frau, ihre neuesten Webarbeiten in ihrer großen Werkstatt zeigte. Und Du, hast Du eine Botschaft?
Graugaard. You’re right, Preben would have hated the word „legacy”. He would have made a joke. To me, Preben’s heritage boils down to this: Be curious. Be humble. Know your history and don’t repeat its mistakes. Don’t fear uncertainty, ambivalence, and doubt. Take your time. Embrace diversity. Know when to listen and when to talk. Know that sometimes you will fail. Know that sometimes patients can’t be helped. Know that science is but one gaze at sexuality and broaden your professional horizon with literature, music, and art. Be yourself and accept that you may never know for sure, who that is.
I carry Preben with me to work every day, and I often think to myself: „How would ‘chefen’ (‘the boss’) have handled this?”. His curiosity, pragmatism, and commonsense help me balance the absolutism of laboratory science with the relativism of radical queer. In Preben’s mind, sexologists should appreciate the extremes, but avoid extremism. I really like that.